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Why We Don't Use Grandstream UCMs

Before I continue, let me reassure you the UCM's do work, the devices are just restrictive, hardware and configurability wise, one of the most common complaints I hear is with Music On Hold, in our markets, the most popular method is streaming, be it a plug-in radio, or remote stream, and the UCM's can't do it.

And with no device level access to UCM's, you can't install basic components like mpg123, icecast or ezstream to use local streaming, nor can you stream local radio or plug a radio or other form of playback device in and stream that, you're stuck with whatever selection of music you upload, maybe this is fine for some markets, but the one we're in, everybody streams... everybody... and since the UCM's are asterisk underneath, there is no reason not to allow its configuring, just like we've been doing on FreePBX for about the last five years or so.

This is where own hardware that doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg, combined with Open Source alternatives like FreePBX win out, you can get powerful yet cheap and reliable industrial hardware such as a Partaker i3 that at lower end of its specs is going to out perform a UCM 6301/6302 and can handle many hundreds of simultaneous active calls, and many times that again in device registrations, with plenty of fast SSD storage with a price tag that in Australia is on par with Grandstream's entry level UCM 6301 (which is still cheaper than Sangoma's entry level PBXact devices btw).

As an example of the Partaker i3 with 4G's RAM, this is a snapshot taken from a service during business hours, the first, it's suitable uptime and resource stats with 141 active calls, and 29 of them enjoying MoH streaming, from icecast and ezstream on the device itself

Did you know even a Raspberry pi 3b+ is benchmarked to process 150 perfect calls without transcoding, with however, your limited to only about perfect 20 active calls, a pi4 has been benched to over 70 perfect transcoded calls (referenced benchmarks video)
so imagine what an i3 or i5 with 4 or 8 G's of RAM can do, and how much voicemail or recorded calls you can store with a 256GB SSD, I've previously covered how Partaker are the providers of some of Sangoma's PBXact models, and how the Sangoma models are deliberately so under spec to make you buy higher end units you're better off buying direct from Partaker.

This brings me to a video I recently watched, given time zones and "life" getting in the way I've been unable to participate or watch many of this guys streams or videos like I used to, but I digress... it must be that season again, where this certain zealousness filled youtuber, one whom I once had respect for, must have had, to borrow a line from Pink Floyd, a momentary lapse of reason, for when he was recently attacking other PBX's for charging for modules to accomplish zero config, and stopping right on the edge of naming them but everyone knew he was talking about Sangoma and FreePBX, he seemingly forgot the zero config module with FreePBX (called Endpoint Manager) for Sangoma phones - just like Grandstream UCM's and Grandstream's phones - is included, and completely free.


Cambridge Dictionary...
Zealousness is commendable, but it cannot ever be an acceptable excuse for unprofessional and unethical conduct.

Sure, you have to pay for add-on licensing for that same module to unlock third party phones, but at least the EPM module can support third party phones, unlike Grandstream's zero config, which only has capability for Grandstream devices, nothing else.

Now, to address Willie's claim the cost of zero config (EPM) for FreePBX is about the cost of a UCM, well Houston, we have another problem...

Quick Background - Now that 99% of Australia is on the NBN, and lost traditional phone services (POTS), FXO ports are useless, so we'll look at the UCM 6301 for our comparisons (it still offers one FXS port in case you have an analog phone for a fax or whatever).
So I updated my spreadsheet price list this morning for the five known UCM retailers

GRANDSTREAM UCM6301 IP PBX		CityTech	$427.02
GRANDSTREAM UCM6301 IP PBX MyITHub $363.00
GRANDSTREAM UCM6301 IP PBX AusPCMarket $469.00
GRANDSTREAM UCM6301 IP PBX AdvanceIT $375.00
GRANDSTREAM UCM6301 IP PBX HomAppliance $361.02

The cheapest AUD 361, and the most expensive AUD 469 (go figure), in taking the average of the five retailers, we get AUD 399, next I visited Sangoma's website and checked the current cost of Endpoint Manager which is still listed at AUD 208 for a 25 year licence.

OK, I was never a maths genius, but even I know that 208 is not on, nor near par with, 399, it doesn't come anywhere close to it, not even to the cheapest price, what was it Cambridge says about zealousness... yeah...

For the record I wouldn't recommend EPM for anything under 30 or so phones, by the time you stuff around getting everything set up, you could have had it all configured and running, remember zero config is zero config for end users, not for the ICT team :-)

In Australia, the Cisco 78xx series like its predecessors the 514g and 94x series, are hugely popular, these robust reliable phones are everywhere, they're decently priced (often rather cheap with bulk discounts), have super crisp like standing-next-to-you clear audio. If your in government, education, big or small business, you're probably using them. Cisco, along with Avaya, Mitel, NEC, and Panasonic make up 99.9% of all IP phones used in Australia, there are others but their numbers are insignificant compared to brands listed above, and no matter what brand you use, If you have a lot of these phones it makes sense to purchase the EPM licence to unlock zero config of third party devices, no ones going to sit around manually programming hundreds or thousands of the things - unless you have a UCM.
Lets stick to reality, no business will blow their budget having their IT team or external consultants manually configure hundreds or thousands of phones all by hand, nor will they be replacing all those perfectly suitable working phones either, it'd be cheaper to install a gateway or two then replace dozens of phones, your PBX is just one part of the big picture, it must like every component of the system, be fit for purpose.

So I commented on that video pointing out a few facts, and reminded him of the lack of streaming capability as huge drawback, only to get a message a day later from a mutual acquaintance saying my post he read a day earlier was no longer there, I know the comment was still there a few hours after I posted since I checked back, but next day sure enough it was deleted. I was rather surprised that this guy who I've followed for years, and interacted with on multiple occasions all a sudden decides to do a censorship sweep on me when factual points about the UCM are raised, he's never canned any other comments of mine before, but the ban hammer was applied by him, or someone.

My issue with this is a lot of people who don't know better, will watch that video and walk away with deliberately false and misleading information, this guy is not a newbie, he is not a fool, he knows damn well what he said was wrong, and well, I don't involve myself with people who act like that so unsubbed from him.

Speaking of Gateways...

Grandstream marketing says their GXW gateways have a couple kilometres loop length, you will be pushing it up hill to make anywhere near that in the real world (all vendors exaggerate though, they try claim lab perfect environment results for the real word, where it's far from it), however for the price point of around AUD 1200, they are good value and work extremely well in smaller loops like Hotels, Motels, and Aged Care, but if it's for a bigger campus environment, you'll need something with more grunt, and I've pointed this out to Grandstream, with my several year old ticket, gaining no traction.

Campuses are where Sangoma's Vega 3050's win out, with a quoted seven kilometres loop (I'd be more inclined to say only five) you're better off, even at around AUD 3200, it's still far cheaper than the alternatives like the Cisco voice gateways that come in at around four times that, geez, a SmartAx or TA 5000 loaded with voice cards and MLT would be cheaper.

And if you're wondering what I think of Grandstream's little 2 and 4 FXS port ATA's? I absolutely love them.



In Conclusion

The UCMs need to reach parity with their competition, if they allowed device access, if they allowed for streaming, local storage access, if they offered the ability for third party zero config, then they'd have a winner in my books, even Yeastar's MyPBX do zero config for free for a few vendors, including Cisco, then despite the limiting hardware and storage (not all clients need to record all calls or have a lot of voicemail - but many do), I think they'd have a great product that I'd be happy to use, the same with their gateways, perfect for Hotels or Aged Care, but they need to support decent distances like five kilometres (real world) at least to be considered serious contenders for campus environments - it is after all why I opened such tickets all those years ago.

Lastly, and I've mentioned this before, no matter who a person is, or how much you consider they know about a subject or product, do your own homework, don't just take their advice for granted, especially when they may have financial interests in promoting a brand. It would take the uninformed five minutes of Google fu'ing to confirm my comments.


  • Disclaimer I have no ties or allegiances to any brand, this allows me to be neutral and honest in my opinions, I use products from multiple vendors including all those mentioned within, when they are fit for purpose.
  • The images and linked third party video content used in this article are copyright property of their respective owners, they are used here without permission under Australian Copyright Law's Fair Dealings Exemption.


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Antonio Kliensen on :

You know Wille mentioned this, this past weekend, he said some strange things, about not controlling how comments are displayed and he did not moderate you.
I've been on youtube for a long time, and only time comments are displayed but then removed hours later is when the channel moderates you or marks you as spam, so as much as I like him, he is full of shit, I'm sure he is referencing you in his last stream, did you tweet him about it too? said this person did, well he banned you, told everyone, it was so strange, I mean to ban you for you saying he's moderated you, which in my experience he is, your blog post makes it clear he knew he fucked up with his comments about zero config, and I'm sure he called it zero touch which is kind of confusing, and he even admitted you been a long time participant, strange strange strange, you don't ban people for petty shit like that unless you're trying to cover your butt,
why would he mention it at all to us, very strange, but sounds like you hit a raw nerve and he cant afford to have you keep him in check hahahaha

NoelB on :

yep it would be me :-) and banning me was pointless since I unsubbed from him a week ago in both places lol sounds like I made the right choice

and what you say makes sense, why would of 120 ppl I follow, in 20 years, does YT single him out, if hes not modding me, Tony or Joe did

thanks for confirming what a couple of people have messaged me on, they say truth hurts... I CBF watching his videos but since he made mention of me, sounds like trying to deflect, trying to cover his arse or send a warning to anyone else who questions him

I care nothing about his disdain for me, I just want him to be truthful and correct his incorrect information, and apologise to his followers for it, if
he does that, my work is done and being banned was well worth it.

NoelB on :

On an unrelated note, it took my blog forever to accept my comment, ok, about 50 seconds... seems one of the blacklists I use is timing out at the moment, so if you comment, please be patient

Ted Niells on :

Found this blog by way of a librechat room, seems you were a brief topic of discussion after the recent WHT livestream, some people were trying to figure out who it was Willie was talking about, then someone mention ressy post on the grandstream video, I myself then remembered seeing it, you made valid points as far I am concerned, I however can not give an opinion on why your post was deleted later that night, its deletion is on the face of it suspicious being negative on the UCM which WHT was trying to push, usually youtube will show your post, or reject it, never known it to show a post then randomly hours later not show it.

I also agree with Antonio that it was very strange WHT banned you just for that, and even mentioning the banning, it only raises more questions, because the post I saw was not abusive, it really does make him out to be like Crosstalk who is long known for silencing anyone who corrects him, man that is one dude who can not handle any form of criticism.

PS, Nice touch making me google that city name to post :-)

Syoloy on :

not knowing who any of you are, I like your last bit of advice and checked google, which indicates williehowe did get it wrong, freepbx end point manager is free of extra costs for sangoma phones, you only need to buy a license for other vendor devices, then I looked at grandstreams website, and their zero config only works for their devices, so I confirmed one of your arguments.

no mention of streaming for grandstream, so maybe your second argument too, I don't care enogh to email them and ask.
I dont get williehowe not getting that, I watched a few of his videos just now, and he advertises he knows IT which implies phones, either he does not know phones as well as he thinks, or he was deceitful to push a single product, or maybe his passion caused him to make a mistake that he could correct in the videos summary, like other trusted tubers do, since it was livestream, not right to edit it.

(some advice to you noelb, in future maybe consider linking to the manufacturers data sheets to support your points, more likely to click a link than load a search engine)

NoelB on :

my bad , I often do include references, I have edited the article to reflect the link to End Point Manager and UCM

The Real SysAdmin on :

We tried a 6200 UCM some time ago, we ended up replacing it with an intel NUC, just a base model, nothing super powerful, installed the freepbx iso, it ran smoother for us since we record all calls and have to keep them, we needed the big storage and we were not permitted to use external drives for legal reasons for what we do, we did like being able to set a stream for on hold, tried to get a portable radio working but couldn't, not sure what we were doing wrong, but our radio station like most I think have online streams so we ended up using that.

John Doe on :

I'm using a deliberate fake name incase Willie reads this, we always join and comment in his live streams, and I don't want him knowing who I am and banning me too.

I was shocked that Willie banned anyone, a first timer or a long timer like ressy, just for THIS? omg, sorry Willie, how stupid, childish even, and what baffles me more is he went to lengths to mention it at all in another live stream, maybe the comments are right, he was sending a warning to anyone who goes against him, I hope not, because that is not the Willie that I like and follow and enjoy the Saturday morning live streams with.

Willie should publicly in his next live stream apologize to him, I'm sure someone will come back here and let him know.

NoelB on :

The only person who willie needs to apologise to, is his current viewers, they are the ones who were fed bullshit.

Davo on :

The UCM's work nicely if you have a small office and do basic things, which I think is what you alluded to in your opening paragraph, but I also get what you're saying how UCM is restrictive (to use your words) with hardware and storage, in many cases the UCM is a good fit, in many cases it is not, it can also come down to will you buy a PBX device off the shelf, or will you buy a device, download freepbx or 3cx, and install it, the former has convenience, the latter more power, freedom and features, so you weigh up if you need that extra freedom or not against your use cases, in the end the customer pays for our time, so as a consultant we shouldn't care either way, but they have to make the choice based on our recommendation which is based on their needs. You say in your market streaming is huge thing, so I get it that that's an important factor in your decisions, but streaming won't be big in every market, like it's not for mine.

Linus on :

Nice write up, shocked Willie Howe made those comments, perhaps grandstream sponsored the video and he feels he needed to oversell it, but knowing it is not kosher in the end it does tarnish his reputation not grandstreams.

NoelB on :

Guys/Gals,

I've had to reject a few posts recently, they weren't overly nasty, but they were pretty much all repeating the same thing others have said, I don't see the need to keep flogging a dead horse, so unless you have something new, or comment of the main points of the article, about the devices, I probably wont approve them, sorry, but I'd rather this article as for him, prompts honesty, not promote hate.

I also see from the youtube msg in the article's video link he's removed the video? Looks like someone must have made him aware and he's reflected how poorly he acted, did he make a public correction? or did he just cover it up be deleting the video?

Antonio Kliensen on :

I know you said you wont approve these but maybe this one?

I think willie without admitting the situation mentioned here, in his last weekends stream said he would never knowingly mislead, but never corrected himself.

He mentioned there would be a more dedicated video on hardware.

Willie had the chance to redeem himself and apologize for getting it wrong, looks like he's trying to be in denial by removing the video and not admitting he got it wrong.

Never knowingly rofl if you are going to attack competition you'd think he would gather the information first, so maybe he is not smart like you think he is

Taking bets his followup hardware video will be still favoured to his products he sells over factual honesty and shines grandstream in a better light always over competition.

Tony Nelson on :

Though I would share my thoughts on grandstream and freebpx.

Having been in a situation where need to upgrade our phone system this past week for our family business, I reached out to the local phone shop we have bought phones off and stuff before for a lend of an unconfigured demo UCM to compare, their shop is about a 6 minute walk, so I went and picked it up, last monday.

That evening after dinner, about 7PM, I pulled out my flow chart, and set to work, I finally got it doing most of what I wanted by 1130PM, I never chnged anything with music on hold because this blog makes it clear you can't.

Following evening after dinner, again about 7PM, I fired up our old 9yo lenovo m73 tiny that use to run POS, it was just collecting dust since we shelve dit 4 years ago, I installed the latest freepbx ISO, and set off configuring, I was all done and dusted by 930PM, even did including music on hold, it was so easy and quick I checked things 3 times in case I forgot something.

From someone who has not touched anything VOIP related only our antique NEC pabx, I find freepbx interface more reposonsive , it is much cleaner, organised, and intuitive, very simple to configure even a child could do it, oh a child did do it, i'm only 15.

Laura Steynes on :

So a leopard never changes its spots, once again Willie Howe goes off on a UCM is the messiah of pbx's tangent, you think grandstream ucm is only pbx that can do ivr's, call parking, queues, contact management, faxing, logging, call reporting, create cdr's, and without spending 300 dollars on commercial modules you cant do jack shit with freepbx, dudes and dudettes I was close to hurling my guts up watching that latest marketing tripe, 9 minutes of my life lost forever.

I'll quickly copy my reply on youtube and paste it in new message before he goes and deletes it.

Laura Steynes on :

From YT because willy is bound to delete it, his recent "Why the Grandstream UCM is the BEST PBX for the value" video


@laurasteynes7153
0 seconds ago
ok, where do I start, first in my country ucm is 400 dollars, thats not value for money when we can buy lenovo thinkcentre minis for 120 dollars second hand, or partaker rugged minis brand new for 300 with 8G ram and 512 SSD, and freepbx is free, the interface of UCM might be more eye candy but as you said, freepbx is fully featured, you can control every aspect of asterisk, unlike UCM, not having access to the UCM means we are stuck with uploading crappy mp3's for music on hold, the same stuff every time someone calls, freepbx allows you to use streaming, live radio, and oh my goodness faxing ivrs queing call parking, thats all asterisk default be it UCM, freepbx or yeahstars or anything, contacts, CDR, custom severity debugging, all included, its all asterisk,

if you want to push your UCM marketing you need it to show something that other PBX dont, and nothing you've said I cant do on freepbx and without buying commercial modules, you are talking like none of that is available in freepbx and other asterisk systems when it very much is, and please do not insult us, you know as well as anyone that the commercial module functionality is available just in other ways its just asterisk, and nobody I know has ever used any of the commercial modules, yes chris sherwood likes to push them, I guess he gets a kickback from him spamming us about them, but you dont need them even for a very featured pbx, and anybody who buys endpoint manager is a fool, it doesnt save any time over normal provisioning, BUT at least endpoint anager can support a lot of hphone modules and brands, especially Cisco and Alcatel, the UCM does not it only supports grandstream phones, no plugins or anything to manage other brands.

please don't say grandstream offer support, because I have had tickets open for 2 years and still no traction, hoping I'll go away I think, well they were right, I sold it off on ebay earlier this year and went to freepbx and I can do much much more with it than the UCM.

I'm very sorry Willy, but when I see blatant crap I need to call it out, even in marketing material like this video. I like to see fair and unbiased opinions, do I wish UCM had streaming or live radio, yes, would I still be using UCM if it did, no, it has terrible storage capability, and simultaneous calls with transcoding often made it barf, but to be expected since you have to use their hardware, but I dove the look and form factor of it, so theres that.

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